In a small studio on a country road in Allenwood, Co Kildare, the kettle is boiling and the Tunnock’s tea cakes are being put out. “Tea and tea cakes,” they have become the official menu of our podcast,” says Mary Kennedy, laughing.

This relaxed and friendly environment is part of the success of Changing Times -The Allenwood Conversations, a podcast hosted by former President of Ireland, Mary McAleese and acclaimed broadcaster Mary Kennedy. But what is really at its core is friendship, one that has been nurtured over 15 years.

Walking the Camino was the first step in their friendship. “We’re both people people,” says Mary Kennedy. “By that I mean, we’re very interested in people, and that extends to community, culture, especially Irish culture, we’re proud of what we have as a country.”

“And we value friendship,” adds Mary McAleese.

Their Camino friendship developed amongst a group of 15 and they still holiday together, where there is plenty of badly sung sing-songs, competitive quizzes, lots of laughter – and a generous helping of life thrown into the mix.

“You see, it all started from very sad circumstances,” explains Mary McAleese. “We had a colleague whose children died in a dreadful accident. We started doing the Camino with him and his wife and a group of friends emerged from that.

"Since then, two people in our group have passed away, and another is very sick. So, we’re also confronted with that fragility of life, but in a way, that bonds us too. We’re all people who really live in the moment and enjoy life because, it can be very short.”

Being friends is one thing but being business partners is a different ballgame and through their podcast, they have learned a lot about each other.

“Mary McAleese is very accommodating,” explains her friend. “She is really in tune with what people are going through. I’ve had some difficulties health wise and she is concerned and understanding – there is work and there is life, and she gets that.”

In reply, Mary McAleese says, “I’m always up for a laugh. If there’s one thing that I really cannot get on with in life, is people who are poor faced, I swear, they drag the life out of you. I believe there are two types of people, radiators and drains. And drains do literally that, they drain the life out of you, but Mary is the polar opposites, she is a radiator and always great company.”

Famous faces

It’s not just their famous names that have helped them secure a stellar line-up of guests for their podcast – although let’s be honest, that has helped.

They have also created a space for meaningful conversations. A snapshot of guests includes Dermot Kennedy, Daniel O’Donnell, Eileen Dunne, Roz Purcell, Bertie Ahern, Seán Ó’Fearghail and Noírín O’Sullivan, and while the conversation is certainly varied, it is sometimes deep, and always engaging.

Although neither will admit which interview they enjoyed most, Mary McAleese says Phil Coulter was perhaps, the guest who surprised her.

“After Phil finished school, he went to Queen’s University Belfast to study music. This man is in his 80s and to go to university was a huge deal back then, especially for his parents. He went there for five years but never got his degree because his music took off. He went to London and subsequently, achieved massive success with Eurovision wins, Grammy nominations, number 1 hits, a stellar career.

"So at the end of our podcast, we ask our guests, if they could change one thing in their life, what would it be? And to our amazement, he explained that he wished he had finished college so that he could have brought his degree home to his Mammy and Daddy. He got quite emotional, and we were both completely taken back.”

“Tell them what you did next,” says Mary Kennedy.

Smiling she continues, “Afterwards, I phoned a colleague in Queen’s. I said, ‘Is it possible that he can get his degree, given everything he has achieved for music? His reply was, ‘whatever it takes, we’ll get it done’.

Now people work from home much more, which means a lot less commuting, more time with family, being involved in their community

“So I rang Phil, he was driving home from the studio. He pulled the car in, and next thing, I just heard him sobbing. I thought, wow, here is a man with name recognition the world over, such accomplishments, and he still carries that with him. It really was quite moving.”

For Mary Kennedy, the most thought-provoking interview was Rory O’Connor, known to many from his profile Rory’s Stories.

“What struck me is that this guy went through hell in school. He talked about being the dunce and he shares those stories and that vulnerability. Look at him now, he is a comedian, a best-selling author, a mental health advocate, married with three children – very funny, very impressive. But for a long time, he really thought he would end up more or less in the gutter.

“As someone who stood in front of children as a secondary school teacher, that really struck me. Clever students will do well no matter what, but I used to always get a kick out of the weaker students reaching their potential. To think he was just left at the back of the class, you know, you really want to give those people a talking to. He is a huge role model for young guys and girls, and it’s wonderful that the world we live in now gives him a platform.”

Retirement isn’t really a word that comes into play with the two Marys, having both had such impressive careers. With 15 years on air presenting Nationwide, Mary Kennedy has seen nearly every corner of rural Ireland.

“I’m very optimistic about how rural Ireland is evolving. There are pockets that still need a lot of work and development. But as you go further west, there’s a vibrancy.

"Since the pandemic, there has been a real change of pace and an improvement in the quality of life. I remember when I used to be filming, leaving Dublin at 6.30am and as we went out the M50, there would be a sea of lights coming in the opposite direction on the way into the city.

"Now people work from home much more, which means a lot less commuting, more time with family, being involved in their community, the local GAA – all that is breathing life back into rural Ireland.”

Compromise

For Mary McAleese, even though she is nearly out of the Áras as long as she was there, she is always on top of the politics, particularly foreign relations, given her memories of growing up during the Troubles.

“Here we are in this millennium where we have so much technology, so much development. We understand that all wars eventually end – they have to end. And they end in negotiation, in compromise. To think that there are people losing their lives in that interim period, until good leaders emerge who are prepared to make compromises, it is very depressing.

“So I look at all the heartbreak, the people, especially children, who have gone to their eternal reward. And having lived through the Troubles, I also think of the aftermath, the young men who never came home, the marriages that never got to be a family. And I just think, what a waste, what an absolute waste. When in the name of all that is good are we going to learn that the best way to live is to live in harmony with your neighbours?

“I don’t want to live in a world where my grandchildren saw what I saw.”

And so the conversation evolves again onto the many roles women play in life. Because, while these Marys embrace all their titles, whether that’s president, presenter or podcaster, they are equally enjoying being known as Nana.